Present: Ron Appleby; Steve Thompson; Sean Fitzsimons; Roger Wagner; Thomas Boeke; Andrew Phillips; Cathy Bone; Bob Bone; Tomas Howard-Jones; Chris Adams; Matt Plumley; Tony Skrzypczyk; Jerry Fitzpatrick

Apologies: Brendan Daintith; Deborah Daintith; Neil Pettigrew; 

1. Approval of minutes of meeting held on 3^rd March 2022  √Approved

2. Update on Action Points from last meeting

    2.1  Check that the double rate of Council Tax is being applied to The Glamorgan (as an empty premise) 

• ACTION 1: SF to check with council and advise at next meeting.
• Ron Appleby: Croydon Council has indicated that The Glamorgan is viewed as a commercial property subject to the business rate with a flat above subject to the residential rate; otherwise offers limited information due to data privacy restrictions
• Sean Fitzsimons: business rate should apply to the ground floor public house; this was the reason the owner was so keen to demolish in 2017, and any period of grace has long gone.
• Ron Appleby: in addition the flat has been occupied and continues to be occupied by person or persons the owner describes as ‘squatters’.
• Thomas Boeke reports the ‘squatters appear to be multiple persons and a dog’.

    2.2  Progress of Owners’ intention to sell The Glamorgan? 

    – RA to check with Monarch Commercial, and Owners of the Glamorgan,           plans for sale of freehold (see below 2.3).

• Ron Appleby reports that the selling agent Monarch have been instructed to simply pass on the details of any interest shown to the owner; has no notice of a sale to any of the parties offering above £2m cited by the owners in rejecting our Glamorgan Phoenix bid. The owner claims their plan to demolish & redevelop the site was ‘withdrawn’ due to Croydon Council’s ‘bankruptcy’.
• Sean Fitzsimons corrects the record: Croydon Council is NOT ‘bankrupt’ & the owner’s plan was REJECTED by the Council AND the Mayor of London; the owner appears to be lying if this is the information he presents to prospective purchasers.
• Ron Appleby adds that the owner suggests a re-application to redevelop will be held up by a ‘backlog’ in the Planning Department caused by ‘a lack of personnel’.
• Sean Fitzsimons corrects the record: such a ‘backlog’ would be irrelevant, for the Council is bound to turn around planning applications from non-residents within 6 weeks if compliant with borough plans (the current Croydon Plan). If the Council failed to turn an application round in that time, the application would go straight to a Planning Inspector.
• Jerry Fitzpatrick believes the owner’s responses lack merit. If he has consulted Pre-Planning he will have been advised that his re-development plan has a long way to go before it is compliant with the Croydon Plan.
• ACTION 2: Sean Fitzsimons will approach Croydon Planning Department to check the owner’s account, and find out if they have had a pre-planning meeting recently.

    2.3  Planning Rules relevance to redeveloping Public Houses 

    – Confirmation of how Croydon’s Local Plan and related Planning regulations restrict/prevent redevelopment of Public Houses and how the Campaign can ensure that the Planning Dept. applies them to any development plans submitted by the owners of the Glamorgan.

• Steve Thompson reminds us that it will be illegal to demolish The Glamorgan without Croydon Planning Permission, which is why the owner’s intention to demolish in 2017 was forbidden.
• Sean Fitzsimons reports that the Croydon Plan is in a period of ‘revision’ following the local elections & appointment of an elected mayor, BUT there are currently no proposals to change the Plan which would affect pub re-development. The owner critically failed to provide in his development plan for the provision of an EQUIVALENT pub space in his new building.
• Jerry Fitzpatrick suggests the Campaign seeks the new mayor’s support for the current Croydon Pub Plan.
• ACTION 3: Sean Fitzsimons suggests members of the Campaign can present their case to the Council for consideration at the next scheduled Council Meeting at 6:30 on Wednesday 19 October; Questions (in less than 100 words) must be filed by Monday 10 October. Jerry Fitzpatrick agreed to meet with Sean to draw-up a suitable question, and he would submit this to the Council and would present the question at the 19 October meeting, and ask a suitable follow-up question depending on the Council’s response.

3. Action Plan for further campaigning activities

• Jerry Fitzpatrick invites members’ help in drafting a Question to Council about the Pub Plan (see Action 3 in section 2.3 above).
• Ron Appleby reminds that the meeting scheduled for Thursday 13 October 2022 will be the AGM – to be quorate we must ensure 15 members attend.
• Sean Fitzsimons will need to check there is no clash with the Council Safer Neighbourhoods Meeting.
• Thomas Boeke requests a time earlier than 7:30 on the 19th.
• Sean Fitzsimons notes we could meet at 7:00.
• Thomas Boeke proposes we invite a speaker from CAMRA
• Steve Thompson will investigate.
• Cathy Bone suggests an invitation to Geoff Strawbridge, CAMRA London Regional Director.
• Roger Wagner reminds that The Horse &Groom as it then was, is likely the key pub in the introduction of the beer style ‘India Pale Ale’ to the cadets of the East India Company’s academy at nearby Addiscombe House, so a piece of ‘beer history’
• Steve Thompson indicates that the factual basis for such a suggestion would need to be established; perhaps we could seek the help of member Dave Lands.
• Ron Appleby reminds we have work to do to make any prospective buyer of the property aware there is a Campaign to save it as a pub.
• Sean Fitzsimons refers to Ian Woodard’s Campaign page on Facebook. Ron Appleby will liaise with Ian to have his write-up of the campaign uploaded to Facebook, so that it would be easily found by anyone searching The Glamorgan online
• Cathy Bone suggests we contact Jane Jephcote of the architectural ‘Jane’s Pub Crawls’ of the SW London CAMRA London Pubs Group
• Steve Thompson suggests James Watson, the London Region Pubs Protection Officer, may be a useful contact; reminds that we need to re-register Glamorgan Phoenix as our pub purchasing vehicle, which will cost £13.
• Sean Fitzsimons reminds that the London Plan 2021 has a pubs section we should consult.

4. Any other business

None.

5. Date of Next Meeting – AGM Thursday 27th October 2022 @ 7pm

 – Date changed from 13^th (as agreed at meeting) to 27^th to avoid other meetings. This will be a hybrid meeting, held in a room at the Town Hall, but also with a ZOOM meeting invitation issued which people who cannot attend in person can use to view and fully participate in the meeting.

NOTE : Email reply from The Glamorgan’s owners in response to query about their intentions for the pub:

Thank you for your email Just to give you an update we have a number of offers which are both   for the redevelopment of the site and as is in excess of £2m 

As you may be aware the previous Planning application which had been recommended by the officer had to be withdrawn due the internal and financial problems with Croydon Council 

We have now amended the scheme to bring up to date and have been ready to resubmit but have deliberately held back until September as there is big backlog of applications due to the lack of staff

Thus it looks like they intend to try to get some form of planning application approved, so that they can sell the freehold with planning approval for £2m+, as this is the only way they will get that sort of sum for it.